The Trinity

 

There are lots of people who at first sight judges the Trinity without doing thier own research on the subject.

Before judging the Christian as wrong , one does well in looking at the meaning of (one) in the Shema.

Deu 6:4 Tanakh שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה ׀ אֶחָֽד׃

Deu 6:4 Tanakh-1917 HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.

אחד echâd is the word used for one

Which word also stands for unity for example it is used in reference to Adam and Eve being one flesh .

Gen 2:24 Tanakh עַל־כֵּן֙ יַֽעֲזָב־אִ֔ישׁ אֶת־אָבִ֖יו וְאֶת־אִמּ֑וֹ וְדָבַ֣ק בְּאִשְׁתּ֔וֹ וְהָי֖וּ לְבָשָׂ֥ר אֶחָֽד׃

Gen 2:24 Tanakh-1917 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh.

Notice two yet one Flesh . The Trinity is three persons yet one God which does not contradicts the Shema.

Now there is a word that if the Shema was to use as one can argue against the Trinity and that word is יחיד yâchı̂yd

Now if this word was used in the Shema Then no one can argue for the case of the Trinity for that word means only solitary, single and no unity.

Psa 68:6 Tanakh אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ מ֘וֹשִׁ֤יב יְחִידִ֨ים ׀ בַּ֗יְתָה מוֹצִ֣יא אֲ֭סִירִים בַּכּוֹשָׁר֑וֹת אַ֥ךְ ס֝וֹרֲרִ֗ים שָׁכְנ֥וּ צְחִיחָֽה׃

Psa 68:6 Tanakh-1917 {68:7} God maketh the solitary to dwell in a house; He bringeth out the prisoners into prosperity; The rebellious dwell but in a parched land.

If one sees in the Book of Genesis God is seen as a Trinity when he appeared to Abraham.

Gen 18:1-3 Tanakh 1 וַיֵּרָ֤א אֵלָיו֙ יְהוָ֔ה בְּאֵלֹנֵ֖י מַמְרֵ֑א וְה֛וּא יֹשֵׁ֥ב פֶּֽתַח־הָאֹ֖הֶל כְּחֹ֥ם הַיּֽוֹם׃ 2 וַיִּשָּׂ֤א עֵינָיו֙ וַיַּ֔רְא וְהִנֵּה֙ שְׁלֹשָׁ֣ה אֲנָשִׁ֔ים נִצָּבִ֖ים עָלָ֑יו וַיַּ֗רְא וַיָּ֤רָץ לִקְרָאתָם֙ מִפֶּ֣תַח הָאֹ֔הֶל וַיִּשְׁתַּ֖חוּ אָֽרְצָה׃ 3 וַיֹּאמַ֑ר אֲדֹנָ֗י אִם־נָ֨א מָצָ֤אתִי חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ אַל־נָ֥א תַעֲבֹ֖ר מֵעַ֥ל עַבְדֶּֽךָ׃

Gen 18:1-3 Tanakh-1917 1 And the LORD appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth, 3 and said: ‘My lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant.

Notice The Lord Appeared to Abraham but as what three men and what did Abraham do , he ran to them and called these three men not my lords but my lord.

Also notice when God created man, look at what he states us ,our . God speaks of himself in plural terms not singler.

Gen 1:26 Tanakh וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה אָדָ֛ם בְּצַלְמֵ֖נוּ כִּדְמוּתֵ֑נוּ וְיִרְדּוּ֩ בִדְגַ֨ת הַיָּ֜ם וּבְע֣וֹף הַשָּׁמַ֗יִם וּבַבְּהֵמָה֙ וּבְכָל־הָאָ֔רֶץ וּבְכָל־הָרֶ֖מֶשׂ הָֽרֹמֵ֥שׂ עַל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃

Gen 1:26 Tanakh-1917 And God said: ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.’

When man is kicked out of the garden how does God speak again in plural terms.

Gen 3:22 Tanakh וַיֹּ֣אמֶר ׀ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֗ים הֵ֤ן הָֽאָדָם֙ הָיָה֙ כְּאַחַ֣ד מִמֶּ֔נּוּ לָדַ֖עַת ט֣וֹב וָרָ֑ע וְעַתָּ֣ה ׀ פֶּן־יִשְׁלַ֣ח יָד֗וֹ וְלָקַח֙ גַּ֚ם מֵעֵ֣ץ הַֽחַיִּ֔ים וְאָכַ֖ל וָחַ֥י לְעֹלָֽם׃

Gen 3:22 Tanakh-1917 And the LORD God said: ‘Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.’

When God is going to confuse the people language at the tower of Babel he uses plural terms.

Gen 11:7 Tanakh הָ֚בָה נֵֽרְדָ֔ה וְנָבְלָ֥ה שָׁ֖ם שְׂפָתָ֑ם אֲשֶׁר֙ לֹ֣א יִשְׁמְע֔וּ אִ֖ישׁ שְׂפַ֥ת רֵעֵֽהוּ׃

Gen 11:7 Tanakh-1917 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.’

When Aaron gives the Priestly blessings upon the people of God , he mentions Lord three times so God can put his name on the people

Num 6:24-27 Tanakh 24 יְבָרֶכְךָ֥ יְהוָ֖ה וְיִשְׁמְרֶֽךָ׃ ס 25 יָאֵ֨ר יְהוָ֧ה ׀ פָּנָ֛יו אֵלֶ֖יךָ וִֽיחֻנֶּֽךָּ׃ ס 26 יִשָּׂ֨א יְהוָ֤ה ׀ פָּנָיו֙ אֵלֶ֔יךָ וְיָשֵׂ֥ם לְךָ֖ שָׁלֽוֹם׃ ס 27 וְשָׂמ֥וּ אֶת־שְׁמִ֖י עַל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וַאֲנִ֖י אֲבָרֲכֵֽם׃ פ

Num 6:24-27 Tanakh-1917 24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee; 25 The LORD make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; 26 The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. 27 So shall they put My name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them.’

There are other agreements one can take from the Torah for the belief in the Trinity like the word אלהים ĕlôhı̂ym being a plural noun for God in Genesis 1:1 .

In Genesis 18-19 we can take a good look at the Trinity.

Gen 18 (NKJV)

 

¹ Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.² So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,³ and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant.

 

St Augustine on the Trinity Book 2 Chapter 10

 

(“ But under the oak at Mamre he saw three men, whom he invited, and hospitably received, and ministered to them as they feasted. Yet Scripture at the beginning of that narrative does not say, three men appeared to him, but, “The Lord appeared to him.” And then, setting forth in due order after what manner the Lord appeared to him, it has added the account of the three men, whom Abraham invites to his hospitality in the plural number, and afterwards speaks to them in the singular number as one; and as one He promises him a son by Sara, viz. the one whom the Scripture calls Lord, as in the beginning of the same narrative, “The Lord,” it says, “appeared to Abraham.” He invites them then, and washes their feet, and leads them forth at their departure, as though they were men; but he speaks as with the Lord God, whether when a son is promised to him, or when the destruction is shown to him that was impending over Sodom. “)

 

There are lots of illustrations one can give to show the Trinity. Saint Patrick used a shamrock one stem yet 3 leaves to explain it.

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Some has compared it to the church thou many members yet one church

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Some marriage which is two husband and wife yet one flesh,

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Some use humans which are body , spirit and soul yet one you,

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Some uses as a egg as a example which is shell ,egg white and yolk , yet one egg.

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Other use light as a example which is three colors make light Red, Green and Blue.

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If you put water in a tube and then freaze it in a moment of a second it will turn to solid , liquid and gas at the same time.

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Some will use Sun , Ray and Heat as a example

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There is no perfect illustration but I found this graph to be pretty good in my illustration.

I like using this graph

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I try to draw it or one like it with Bible verses here is how it should look though you might draw it better than me.I am not that talented in drawing.

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The reason for it because it tells us what the Trinity is and what it is not . And the verses is a big help.

This is a other chart I found with verses

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There is one God

“"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!”Deu 6:4 (NKJV)

The Son is God

“But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.”Heb 1:8 (NKJV)

The Father is God

“To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Rom 1:7 (NKJV)

The Holy Spirit is God

Acts 5 (NKJV)³ But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit …..⁴..You have not lied to men but to God."

Yet they are different in persons

“And I (Jesus) will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper (Holy Spirit), that He may abide with you forever-–”John 14:16 (NKJV)

John 8 (NKJV)¹⁷ It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true.¹⁸ I (Jesus) am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me."

Since this short article has been such a blessing to many people there is a Creed (which means statement of faith) which in my opinion is the best Creed and it is called Athanasius Creed . Written around 500 or 600 AD and it is all about the Trinity. And here it is .

Athanasian Creed

Whosoever will be saved , before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith.(Catholic here means universal among all believers ) Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the Catholic Faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one, the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost.

The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal. As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible.

So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord.

For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be both God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore, or after other; none is greater, or less than another; But the whole three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is afore said, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved is must think thus of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of his Mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his manhood; Who, although he be God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh but by taking of the Manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead.

He ascended into heaven, he sitteth at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

This is the Catholic Faith (again the meaning is universal among Christains), which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved.

Let's look each one of them and few things they do differently than the others

The Father reserves some things for himself like when Jesus is coming.

“"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.”— Mat 24:36 (NKJV)

“"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”— Mar 13:32 (NKJV)

When would Israel be restored to it's pass glory is only known by the Father

Acts 1 (NKJV)⁶ Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"⁷ And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.

Father brings us to Jesus

John 6 (NKJV)⁴⁴ No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.⁶⁵ And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."

Father gave us the Son

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”John 3:16 (NKJV)

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The Son came in flesh and blood

“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”— John 1:14 (NKJV)

Died and rose again

“From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.— Mat 16:21 (NKJV)

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He led Jesus to be tempted by the devil

“Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.” Mat 4:1 (NKJV)

He came down upon Jesus in the form of a dove as to show John who Jesus was

“When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.”Mat 3:16 (NKJV)

John 1 (NKJV)³³ I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, 'Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.'³⁴ And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God."

Jesus did his miracles by the Holy Spirit

Mat 12 (NKJV)²² Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind and mute man both spoke and saw.²³ And all the multitudes were amazed and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"²⁴ Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, "This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons."²⁸ But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.³¹ "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.³² Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

He gives us the spiritaul gifts

1Cor 12 (NKJV)⁷ But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:⁸ for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,⁹ to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,¹⁰ to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.¹¹ But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

He gives us the fruit of the spirit

Gal 5 (NKJV)²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,²³ gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

 

There has been those who has opposed this doctrine in the pass just I there are a great number now.  One was Arius.

 

Why was Arius treated as being heretical?

 

Arias denied Jesus and The Holy Spirit was God in nature. And said there was a time when the Son did not exist.

The Ecclesiastical History, By Socrates Scholasticus 380-450 AD states

Book 1 Chapter 5 {“A certain one of the presbyters under his jurisdiction, whose name was Arius, possessed of no inconsiderable logical acumen, imaging that the bishop was subtly teaching the same view of this subject as Sabellius the Libyan, from love of controversy took the opposite opinion to that of the Libyan, and as he thought vigorously responded to what was said by the bishop. `If,' said he, `the Father begat the Son, he that was begotten had a beginning of existence: and from this it is evident, that there was a time when the Son was not. It therefore necessarily follows, that he had his substance from nothing.'”}

This is a denial of the early church teaching that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal in nature.

The Didache 100 A.D. Chapter 7 {“(1) Now concerning baptism, baptize as follows: after you have reviewed" all these things, baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" in running water. “}

Ignatius 50 to110 AD in his Epistles to Philippians Chapter 2 (“There is then one God and Father, and not two or three; One who is; and there is no other besides Him, the only true [God]. For “the Lord thy God,” saith [the Scripture], “is one Lord.” And again, “Hath not one God created us? Have we not all one Father? And there is also one Son, God the Word. For “the only-begotten Son,” saith [the Scripture], “who is in the bosom of the Father.” And again, “One Lord Jesus Christ.” And in another place, “What is His name, or what His Son’s name, that we may know?” And there is also one Paraclete. For “there is also,” saith [the Scripture], “one Spirit, since “we have been called in one hope of our calling.” And again, “We have drunk of one Spirit, "with what follows. And it is manifest that all these gifts [possessed by believers] “works one and the self-same Spirit.” There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete. Wherefore also the Lord, when He sent forth the apostles to make disciples of all nations, commanded them to “baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,” not unto one [person] having three names, nor into three [persons] who became incarnate, but into three possessed of equal honor.”}

Cyprian (200 -258 AD) On the Unity of the Church states {“The Lord says, “I and the Father are one;” and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, “And these three are one.”}

 

Gregory Thaumaturgus 205- 260 AD in A Declaration of Faith {“There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything superinduced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at some later period it was introduced. And thus, neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides ever. “}

 

I have been in intensive debates over the Trinity with many people. Here are just a few answers with their replies. 

 

(Reply from one who doesn't believe)

 

3 cannot be 1 and 1 cannot be 3 if God is the first and the last then surely by Jesus's death this logic of trinity stands no chance 

 

(My reply)

 

Your problem is you are adding when you need to be multiplying because 1 * 1 * 1 equals 1 God is eternity three eternity equels 1 eternity.

 

(Reply from one who doesn't believe)

 

1*1*1 also poses a problem, because Jesus says that Father is greater 

 

(My reply)

 

Greater means positionally , The Son submits to the Father , but That's not a problem . The president is greater than us , but he still has the same nature of us which is human , but imagine if Biden would say I am better than you guys. We will say he's out of his mind does he think he's another nature than us, does he come from another planet, is he a alien. “)It would been a problem if Jesus would of said my Father is better than me for that would of been speaking about nature.

Notice The Father is greater than the Son

“You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.”John 14:28 (NKJV)

Notice Jesus is better than the Angels

“having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.Heb 1:4 (NKJV)

 
 
 

 

(Reply from one who doesn't believe)

That’s the problem with trinity.
By dismissing literal explanations that oppose trinity and using ambiguous explanations to support trinity.

 

When it’s clear that Father is greater, trinity assumes that Jesus is equal with Father, but there’s no verse that directly verifies it.

 

( My reply)

 

You need to look up the difference between greater and better in a dictionary.

And only God the Holy Spirit can change your heart to see the truth , accept it

 

No amounts of arguments would do it.

 

( Response from one who does believe)

 

How about a God that is absolutely ONE and all-powerful? Is that a false God?

 

( My reply)

 

One does well in looking at the meaning of (one) in the Shema.

Deu 6:4 Tanakh שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהוָ֥ה ׀ אֶחָֽד׃

Deu 6:4 Tanakh-1917 HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.

אחד echâd is the word used for one

Which word also stands for unity for example it is used in reference to Adam and Eve being one flesh .

Gen 2:24 Tanakh עַל־כֵּן֙ יַֽעֲזָב־אִ֔ישׁ אֶת־אָבִ֖יו וְאֶת־אִמּ֑וֹ וְדָבַ֣ק בְּאִשְׁתּ֔וֹ וְהָי֖וּ לְבָשָׂ֥ר אֶחָֽד׃

Gen 2:24 Tanakh-1917 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh.

Notice two yet one Flesh . The Trinity is three persons yet one God which does not contradicts the Shema.

Now there is a word that if the Shema was to use as one can argue against the Trinity and that word is יחיד yâchı̂yd

Now if this word was used in the Shema Then no one can argue for the case of the Trinity for that word means only solitary, single and no unity.

Psa 68:6 Tanakh אֱלֹהִ֤ים ׀ מ֘וֹשִׁ֤יב יְחִידִ֨ים ׀ בַּ֗יְתָה מוֹצִ֣יא אֲ֭סִירִים בַּכּוֹשָׁר֑וֹת אַ֥ךְ ס֝וֹרֲרִ֗ים שָׁכְנ֥וּ צְחִיחָֽה׃

Psa 68:6 Tanakh-1917 {68:7} God maketh the solitary to dwell in a house; He bringeth out the prisoners into prosperity; The rebellious dwell but in a parched land.

If one sees in the Book of Genesis God is seen as a Trinity when he appeared to Abraham.

Gen 18:1-3 Tanakh 1 וַיֵּרָ֤א אֵלָיו֙ יְהוָ֔ה בְּאֵלֹנֵ֖י מַמְרֵ֑א וְה֛וּא יֹשֵׁ֥ב פֶּֽתַח־הָאֹ֖הֶל כְּחֹ֥ם הַיּֽוֹם׃ 2 וַיִּשָּׂ֤א עֵינָיו֙ וַיַּ֔רְא וְהִנֵּה֙ שְׁלֹשָׁ֣ה אֲנָשִׁ֔ים נִצָּבִ֖ים עָלָ֑יו וַיַּ֗רְא וַיָּ֤רָץ לִקְרָאתָם֙ מִפֶּ֣תַח הָאֹ֔הֶל וַיִּשְׁתַּ֖חוּ אָֽרְצָה׃ 3 וַיֹּאמַ֑ר אֲדֹנָ֗י אִם־נָ֨א מָצָ֤אתִי חֵן֙ בְּעֵינֶ֔יךָ אַל־נָ֥א תַעֲבֹ֖ר מֵעַ֥ל עַבְדֶּֽךָ׃

Gen 18:1-3 Tanakh-1917 1 And the LORD appeared unto him by the terebinths of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2 and he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood over against him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed down to the earth, 3 and said: ‘My lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant.

Notice The Lord Appeared to Abraham but as what three men and what did Abraham do , he ran to them and called these three men not my lords but my lord.

Also notice when God created man, look at what he states us ,our . God speaks of himself in plural terms not singler.

Gen 1:26 Tanakh וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה אָדָ֛ם בְּצַלְמֵ֖נוּ כִּדְמוּתֵ֑נוּ וְיִרְדּוּ֩ בִדְגַ֨ת הַיָּ֜ם וּבְע֣וֹף הַשָּׁמַ֗יִם וּבַבְּהֵמָה֙ וּבְכָל־הָאָ֔רֶץ וּבְכָל־הָרֶ֖מֶשׂ הָֽרֹמֵ֥שׂ עַל־הָאָֽרֶץ׃

Gen 1:26 Tanakh-1917 And God said: ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.’

When man is kicked out of the garden how does God speak again in plural terms.

Gen 3:22 Tanakh וַיֹּ֣אמֶר ׀ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֗ים הֵ֤ן הָֽאָדָם֙ הָיָה֙ כְּאַחַ֣ד מִמֶּ֔נּוּ לָדַ֖עַת ט֣וֹב וָרָ֑ע וְעַתָּ֣ה ׀ פֶּן־יִשְׁלַ֣ח יָד֗וֹ וְלָקַח֙ גַּ֚ם מֵעֵ֣ץ הַֽחַיִּ֔ים וְאָכַ֖ל וָחַ֥י לְעֹלָֽם׃

Gen 3:22 Tanakh-1917 And the LORD God said: ‘Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.’

When God is going to confuse the people language at the tower of Babel he uses plural terms.

Gen 11:7 Tanakh הָ֚בָה נֵֽרְדָ֔ה וְנָבְלָ֥ה שָׁ֖ם שְׂפָתָ֑ם אֲשֶׁר֙ לֹ֣א יִשְׁמְע֔וּ אִ֖ישׁ שְׂפַ֥ת רֵעֵֽהוּ׃

Gen 11:7 Tanakh-1917 Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.’

When Aaron gives the Priestly blessings upon the people of God , he mentions Lord three times so God can put his name on the people

Num 6:24-27 Tanakh 24 יְבָרֶכְךָ֥ יְהוָ֖ה וְיִשְׁמְרֶֽךָ׃ ס 25 יָאֵ֨ר יְהוָ֧ה ׀ פָּנָ֛יו אֵלֶ֖יךָ וִֽיחֻנֶּֽךָּ׃ ס 26 יִשָּׂ֨א יְהוָ֤ה ׀ פָּנָיו֙ אֵלֶ֔יךָ וְיָשֵׂ֥ם לְךָ֖ שָׁלֽוֹם׃ ס 27 וְשָׂמ֥וּ אֶת־שְׁמִ֖י עַל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל וַאֲנִ֖י אֲבָרֲכֵֽם׃ פ

Num 6:24-27 Tanakh-1917 24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee; 25 The LORD make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; 26 The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. 27 So shall they put My name upon the children of Israel, and I will bless them.’

There are other agreements one can take from the Torah for the belief in the Trinity like the word אלהים ĕlôhı̂ym being a plural noun for God in Genesis 1:1 but let's leave it here.

 

But my point is there is a pretty Good case for the Trinity in this one God of the Shema which we see. Because God is a unity.

 

(One who didn't believe but now has a change of thought )

 

So, God that’s absolutely One and not a Unity, is a false God?

 

( My reply )

 

You said it , Because the God of the Bible is describe as one in unity, same as in nature but 3 in persons.

 

(A other person who debated me about the Trinity)

 
 
 
Reply
 

 

 
Profile photo for Charles Phillips
 
 
Charles Phillips
 · 10mo

When one has to go outside the scriptures to explain their doctrine such as tradition, councils or creeds it means their doctrine is false and pagan .

 

(My reply )

 

No , Creeds are statements of faith, which are written down, taken from the scripture . Each church whether they like to admit it or not hold to a creed a belief whether they choose to write it down or not is there to choose. If you assign to a old Christian Creed you show you are of the same faith as the early Christains . And if you are not holding a Creed, you are in a heresy, a false belief which can't be proven by scripture or by early church history writtings.

 

(Charlie's reply )

 

I hold to the scriptures,you go outside the scriptures and then justify your paganism, satan is so proud of you.

 

(My reply)

 

Actually he's more proud of you and since you don't know what Creed means a statement of faith, and you have no early church leaders writtings to back up what you say. So you have no authority , If it wasn't for these early church councils we wouldn't have the Bible we hold in our hands. And councils are biblical see Acts 15 . And lack of knowledge of church history is almost as bad as lack of knowledge of scripture which it seems you lack both , since you are attacking the Trinity which can be proven by scripture and early church writtings that they held to this belief.

 

(Charlie's reply )

 

Actually I do have early church leaders: Paul ,Peter , John and the rest of the Apostles. You have a pagan church with pagan doctrines.

 

(My reply)

 

The Scripture itself has creeds , a statement of Faith

1Cor 15 (NKJV)¹ Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,² by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.³ For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,⁴ and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

And The Bible also qoutes outside sources

Tit 1 (NKJV)¹² One of them, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."¹³ This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,

Jud 1 (NKJV)¹⁴ Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,¹⁵ to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

 

Are you saying Paul and Jude were pagans and Satanist . Jude qouted from the book of Enoch and Paul from Epimenides in those passages I qouted.

 

( At this Charlie stop texting)

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